MINUTES
Eden
Planning Board
August 22, 2006
FINAL
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mark Agle, Chairman
Dennis Brawdy, Vice Chairman
Gerard Schwab
Kevin O’Gorman
ABSENT:
Anthony Weiss
William Zittel
Juanita Majewski
Andrew Romanowski, Alt.
GUESTS:
Andrew Reilly, Town Engineer
Jay Braymiller
Paul Laing
Chintin Shah
John Colligan
John Tighe
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Chairman, Mark Agle called the August 22, 2006 Planning Board Meeting to Order at 7:05p.m.
Mark Agle requested a motion to approve the July 25, 2006 Planning Board
Minutes as submitted and printed, so moved by Gerard Schwab, seconded by Kevin
O’Gorman, carried all ayes.
NEW & UNFINISHED BUSINESS:
David Clemens presented his original survey showing
the original Woodside Subdivision as it was originally created showing his
residence on Lots 12 and 13 on Wolf Dr. Mr. Clemens indicated that he has been
approached by Colin and Sheila Cambell to purchase the current corner Lot
11 which he would like to reconfigure to add part of Lot
12 thereby maintaining the 100’ frontage requirement for his house. The Campbells
(by verbal agreement with Mr & Mrs. Clemens) would then have 180’ of
frontage on the eastside of Woodside and 200’ of frontage on Wolf
Drive. Mr.
Clemens indicated that he owns additional Lots on Wolf
Dr, Woodside Dr.
and Hillside Dr. purchased
from Schreiber & Winkelman, which may also need to be reconfigured. Mr. O’Gorman questioned about access and the
future extension of Wolf Dr. (followed by discussions
among Kevin, Mark, Dave, and Drew regarding lot angles and accesses) Mark interjected that if Dave’s
reconfiguration results in more than three lots then it likely would become a
Major Subdivision. Mr. O’Gorman stated
but is it because by right he has 2 Lots here.
Drew interjects to explain it and then advised Mr. Clemens that these
maps are already on file with the County and there are 6 Lots if he
reconfigures it into 4 or 5 it is less but it will need to be re-filed with the
County. Therefore, he needs the Board’s
approval because he is going to have to stamp the drawing and re-file with the
County. So if Scott sends him back here
just to reconfigure it should be a simple review as you have fewer lots than
there were before, he just needs our approval so he can sign the map cover and
re-file with the County. Mr. O’Gorman
asked are you going to pickup a lot here pointing to the end on Wolf. Mr. Clemens said no. Mr. O’Gorman asked why? Mr. Clemens advised because he owns 2 more
lots on the cul de sac above that property and we don’t want to have anything
built that would obstruct the view from those 2 lots and thereby decrease the
value of those prime lots. So that is
why I am not considering extending Wolf.
So he doesn’t have to go through sewer review or any of that. No, the sewer and all that is
already in place. Mark asked “Since it
is a currently a filed map cover and we are merely reconfiguring the lots on
that map cover, albeit we are adding those properties to the west, do we need to
have a public hearing. Drew responded
probably, yes. Drew explained that your
laws, unlike other town laws you describe the reconfiguration/division of lots
as a subdivision. Other towns don’t
consider it. They say as long as you
come up with fewer lots you do not have to go through the process. So we may have to go through the very simple
process but they can probably approve the preliminary plat the night of the
public hearing and go right to the final plat and approve the final plat and
approve the final plat so it not like we are going to drag this out for months.
Mark commented that since you already have a filed map cover there with X
number of lots, its not like this is a virgin piece of
property being subdivided for the first time.
Drew - Right, what I would suggest is that as soon as he gets a
reconfiguration working with a surveyor, make sure that all the lots meet
current zoning laws, he would come in here and we would have a public hearing
that night and could probably approve the preliminary and final plat that night
and just have it stamped and signed.
Mark suggested that
probably the best procedure would be to get a sketch plan to us
for the next meeting, or whenever you feel comfortable doing it, for review and
comment. Scott can review it to make
sure it meets all the current codes. If
that’s good we will give you the “green light” and then you can prepare your
preliminary plat and we can set the public hearing up based on that
preliminary. Drew said, I’ve seen it done where once you have
sketch plan approval, just have your surveyor prepare the final plat. We’ll call the public hearing on the
preliminary and final plat and get them both through. Mark – once you have our review of the sketch
plan, you can go right to the final …… Kevin - What you might consider as long
as you are going to go through all of this expense is to make a lot up here
even if you hold onto it forever, because you don’t want to ruin anything up
there because in the end it will save us trouble later on when something
happens and you have extra property on the end of a road and somebody comes and
says we want a house there and then were like well its not part of the
subdivision. Mark, is that right, Drew? Drew – no road plans are there. Mr. Clemens – we had thought about extending
Wolf through there. Currently it dead
ends 10’ west passed our driveway. Mark
is somewhat familiar with this. But I do
have a detached 2 car garage there that I probably could move. Drew – the problem with that would be that for
Mr. Clemens to get final approval he would have to design the entire road
extension and infrastructure and all that and it means spending extra money on
something that may never come to light.
That is up to you but you would spend a great deal of money designing
it. The county will not accept the map
cover until we sign off on it. Mr.
Clemens –my thinking has been that some of these lots will be deep and extend
all the way back. Drew- I admire you for
thinking ahead and wanting to keep the views etc. and not only thing about the
money end. Good thinking for this will
create nice layouts for the future and not ruin other land values. Mr. Clemens – I own the master house for the
entire area and don’t want to ruin my view.
We also own the 2 sector lots on the Woodside cul de sac. Mark – Dawn can get you the subdivision
checklist and you can get that to your design professional and let them do a
sketch plan and we’ll review it as soon as you get it to us. Mr. Clemens – okay.
Multi Industries, we have a plan that was submitted
with our package with the July minutes and I understand that there may be Mr.
Shah produces another newer plan. Drew
produces a memo, which is distributed to all members for review. Drew - They still have some work to do on the
drawing it is better than what it was before, it is showing what they are
trying to do. The north side of the
building needs to be drawn on correctly.
We need to see 25 parking spaces, those shown
on the plan are not to scale... Obviously the sketch has not been stamped by
any licensed architect or surveyor, etc.
Jay Braymiller – I was called this afternoon by Multi, so as of this
afternoon I am going to be working on it.
Drew – Good we need more detailed and accurate details of what they are
planning and the correct scale, loading docks, renovations, etc.. (Discussion
among themselves??) Mark – there
are other tenants in the building where do they park? Is there going to be a
conflict. So we need to see where they park and what portion of the building
is devoted to them as well. What portion
of the building will you occupy?
Obviously we need a professional to draw this up, part of
this is stone, gravel part is cement, etc.
Road and parking improvements need to be in accordance with the code,
(ie dustless surface and delineated). We
will meet with the County to discuss fixing the roadway but only a portion of
the County money remains they used some of it for other projects. Drew - A fix to the sewage system will not be
required. What they are asking for
tonight is (a) a recommendation to approve the Special Use Permit and (b)
whether you would feel comfortable and again we talked about this earlier
Giving conditional site plan approval, I gave you some ideas
of conditions as to site plan approval obviously that puts the pressure upon
Scott and myself to make sure the drawing
is brought into conformance with the Town’s code requirements. That’s why we are here tonight to answer any
questions about the project. Kevin –
there were some questions concerns about truck traffic from the Thruway
utilizing local roads (specifically Hemlock and Depot) to avoid intersections
where turning may be difficult. Mark -
we would recommend that the Town Board, as a condition of any Special Use
Permit, to restrict local roads from commercial traffic serving this
building. Drew - We are expecting the
trucks to use Route 62 and we also have a tentative contract with DOT to
re-stripe the intersection of Route 62 and Church to put the stop lines further
back and put the signs up to stop here (further back). DOT says that the Town needs to submit a
formal letter and the DOT has looked at the aerial photos, etc and they have
confirmed that they will do that it but need a formal request. It’s a simple re-striping job and the
installation of a few signs. Shah – Most
of the trucks will be coming from the Thruway and it should not be a
problem. Mark –Right, they don’t want
the trucks using Hemlock as this issue was raised by the highway superintendent
and others at the Town Board meeting….The other thing that we had discussed
among ourselves was from the Town Board Meeting Minutes was basically the scope
of the operation as laid out in there as to the number of trucks, type of
business, etc. This plan is based upon the
anticipated use described at the meeting.
Shah - Correct.
Mark - Obviously, it is hopeful that business will expend? Shah- Yes.
Mark - If that expansion results in need for modification to the building
or additional improvements to the site then another condition would be that the
Town Board would refer you back at the time when your Special Use Permit came
up for renewal, or you may be referred sooner by the building inspector if you
came in with plans that would initiate such a review. Kevin – What about coming in by rail? Shah – that is a future consideration. Kevin – The rail beds, switch and ballasts
are in. We only need rails. If this is something we can proceed with and
thereby eliminate some if not half of the truck traffic. Shah – yes.
We can do that. Good for all
involved. Dennis – I am going to make a
motion to recommend conditional approval of the site plan based upon the
following conditions: 1. The plan must show specific areas of tenant use within the
overall structure. 2. The drawing must be signed by a licensed
professional. 3. The plan must show more detail on the north
side of the building specifically, parking spaces, delineation, so on and so
forth, according to the Town’s building ordinance. (By the way, as a side this is a great time
of year to pick up milling material.)
4. The drawing must be scaled
correctly. 5. A North arrow has to be show. 6.
Tenant parking for the other tenancy must be shown. Second by Kevin O’Gorman,
Carried All Ayes. Mark – We will
get a letter out to you. Dawn will send you a letter. Shah – okay. Drew – You need a Recommendation of Special
Use Permit, you can recommend also a Negative Declaration under SEQR but this
really may be a type 2 action but we always err on the conservative side. Mark – On behalf of the Planning Board, we
make a recommendation to the Town Board to consider approval of a Special Use
Permit with the inclusion of the following conditions: 1)
that the site plan be revised in accordance with the Planning Board
conditional approval; 2) that the Special Use Permit is reviewed and
renewed annually : 3) that commercial truck traffic serving the
site be restricted from local roads:
4) the Town request the NYSDOT to
look at possible intersection modification at Rt. 62 and Church Street;
and 5)
that they consider issuing a Negative Declaration under SEQR. Discussion on the Motion: Drew – The local road restrictions may have
to be addressed through local laws and a public hearing. Mark – Okay.
Drew – For now we have to recommend it but I believe it has to be
through local law. You also need, if it
becomes a problem on local roads, that people have the opportunity to come
forward at a public hearing to Renew Special Use. Motion Seconded by Kevin O’Gorman. Carried All
ayes. It is my understanding that the
Town Board will be meeting tomorrow night.
I don’t expect you to have the drawing ready by tomorrow night but that
may be a conditional approval by the Town Board but I just want to reiterate
what Scott says but there will be no CO issued until these conditions have been
met. We put a lot of pressure on Scott
to enforce these conditional recommendations and I will help him review them
but I guess they want to see the drawings, the conditions that were placed here
and any other conditions that the Town Board may place before they give you the
CO. He controls that and will also make
sure that any other building issues are addressed. We want to work with the owner of the
building also because we have potential monies from other agencies to help do
some other renovations. Mark – On behalf
of the Planning Board we want to see this project move forward but a
cooperative effort it is a two way street.
We moved this forward tonight to get this approval in place, so now we
expect you to follow though on your part and get those plans done so Scott can
follow through with his inspections, etc.
Shah- Thank you.
Mark – Good Luck.
Paul Laing from LaingGro Fertilizer – Approximately 1
month ago I obtained a building permit and demolished an old storage building
which was 26’ x 60’ and that was used to store my fertilizer spreaders over the
course of the winter months. I miss that
storage space and request to build a new building in the same general
area. It would measure 81’ x 60’ x
16’h. It would be a metal pole type
structure built by Finger Lakes Construction.
Drew - I believe Scott’s memo articulates very well as to what is going
on here. Drew explained, they demolished a building to make room for the new one. The proposed set backs don’t meet the code
but they are better than what they were before so you should be okay on that
point, under the code, just so long as the setbacks are no closer than before. You just need site plan approval so Scott
can work with them and issue the necessary building permits. Mark – Any discussion? So the new building set backs are further
than what they were before? Drew –
Correct, they are not any worse than they were before. The angles are slightly different. Mark – I make a motion to approve this
site-plan. Seconded by
O’Gorman. All “ayes.” Motion carried.
O’Brien’s Pub – Upstairs Expansion – Jay Braymiller,
Architect. The O’Briens are out of town
and I am here on their behalf. These are
the beginnings of our working drawing for submission to Scott but it also shows
the site plan with the existing building, Main Street, the concrete pad that
was added and since the last time before the planning board there is an
additional 20 foot strip along the north side of the building which shows 8
more off-street parking spaces even though you have to enter through this
property (lot adjacent on the north) which is also owned by the O’Briens. Drew – I believe you will have to show that that
property is being considered as part of this plan because that is the only way
they will meet parking requirements is with this property. Jay – They didn’t actually meet the parking
requirements to begin with so now this plan would require even more parking. Drew - While it is nice to see people
visiting the downtown Eden
businesses. They will have to show that
the parking spaces and property are officially a part of O‘Briens pub. Because at some future point, if another
business comes in to that structure, then we don’t have to backtrack and say,
well we gave O’Briens so many parking spaces and we took this into
account. We need to show the extra
spaces as being dedicated to this building and this use. I don’t think 8 spaces is
enough for the current use and is certainly not enough for additional use. Mark – but they also have verbal agreements
with Pietrocarlo’s and John Roberts Salon to be able to use their parking lots
for extra parking. However, this allocation
of dedicated parking spaces is necessary so that if, and/or when, the next use
comes in for the other structure we can show the 8 spaces as well as any
additional parking. Drew – I think you
have to give them some kind of direction to follow for parking requirements to
support the proposed expansion. I think
we will have to do some parking calculations.
The law does allow that if they don’t meet the parking requirements, the
Planning Board can waive or modify the reqiuirement. Mark - We have already received some
correspondence from some of the neighboring businesses concerning the original
parking allocation. Drew – I’ve heard
from some of the neighbors as well regarding the parking situation and they are
very concerned about parking. As you know,
we were very accomodating on the parking issue on the last time around (original
plan) and therefore we expect some help from you this time around. Jay – Well, right now all I can do is show is
that there are 8 parking spots on the property. The vet owns this section and O’Brien owns
this portion and they have approval from him for ingress and egress and they
can probably get that in writing from him.
I cannot today tell you that they can create more parking spots for
O’Briens on the property to the north.
They will have to look into that and respond. So we are looking for a little bit of
direction. Mark – Scott had looked into
the section of the code that pertains to this and based on the square footage
of the proposed project that is shown on the drawing here, it would be roughly 30
additional people in the new upstairs dining room if approved. Mark - What is required for seating in a
restaurant? Drew - 1
spot for every 3 patrons. So you need 10 spaces to support the proposed
use. Mark - I don’t see that the paln as
proposed is going to meet the requirements.
Drew – Its not going to meet the code as
proposed. Remember however, that we,
using our authority under the code, allowed so many parking spots the first
time around and that plan was approved, we are now considering this expanded
use only. As we just discussed, the new
use would require 10 more parking spaces than what was approved under the first
plan. Right. Could we waive that down to 7 or 8? Jay - We have 8 spaces. (Discussion among various people….Those are 8 new spaces? If
he has 8 spaces and only needs 10. They
could maybe put a few more spaces here in the back.) Drew – Its great to
have people visiting downtown area but I drove by there tonight and that
parking/grass area was filled to capacity it was full with over 20 or so
cars. You also have to take into
consideration the time of day. Most of
the patrons are at the pub when many of the other surrounding businesses are
closed. Yes, and that was one of the
factors that we took into consideration when making our initial determination
on parking and we need to go on the record so we can defend ourselves in the
future. Do you have the ability to come
up with 2 more parking spaces and meet the requirement of 10 new spaces? Jay – Yes, I think so. What about Smith’s Hardware? If someone else comes in there, where are
those people going to park? Drew – Scott
will work with you on the building code issues.
When you come in with a completed plan for our consideration, part of
the discussion will be to state on the record what parking was approved initially
and what we are adding now. Mark - Since
much of the parking is truly for overflow and not used all the time, this will
clarify the parking allocations made and the rational for such. I have no problem looking at anyone and
saying that our actions were well considered and that by making our decisions
we have helped create a more vital downtown area If businesses chose
to leave because of it, so be it.
Someone else is in the space.
This has been a good move all the way around. If you can refigure and come up with 10
overall parking spaces then prepare the site paln for our review. Jay - Didn’t the apartment have two spaces
allocated? Yes, I believe it was two
spaces for the apartment. We need to
pull the original approval minutes. Dawn
will try locate the old minutes for our review. Since the new plan will eliminate the
apartment, those two spaces can be credited toward the ten required, therefore
the eight shown plus those two would yield ten total. Well, let’s check the minutes before we leap
to any conclusions. We will see you next
month. Jay – Thank you gentlemen.
Announcements. None.
Motion to adjourn – Mark
Seconded – Kevin
Carried all “ayes”
Adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Dawn Palma
